Article 43


Saturday, September 07, 2013

Preying On The Job Seeker 15


More On Indian Recruiters

What’s it’s like giving up on AMERICAN STAFFING COMPANIES, and letting someone that can’t even spell try to sell you for a “fill time position with one of their client?”

This is the reply I got after giving in, and emailing one of them my resume:

Hello Elvis, Thank you for your response, I represent your resume for this position Network Operations Technician with the client withheld and I will keep you position about this position.


Indian Recruiters What Is Wrong With This Country? 

By Computer Fella’s Blog
January 25, 2011

Here we go. It was not enough have to deal with completely unskilled recruiters. The new trend is LETTING INDIANS DO RECRUITING. By INDIANS I don’t mean Native Americans, but Indians from India. I am sick of these INDIAN RECRUITERS.

In my experience searching for a job, I had to deal with a plethora of so called recruiters. They are totally unskilled, they ask you for a resume and they disappear immediately thereafter. I call them keyword searchers. Yes they search for keywords on job boards and they find your resume. This is fine to sift through tons of resumes, but after that, you may think they start reading; think again, they are not able to read.

The new trend in this nightmare, is called Indian recruiters. Not really a scam, but close. They buy an American phone number (an easy task with VOIP), then they start bombing you with the most absurd jobs. I live in NC and they propose me crap such as a 3 month assignments in Oregon. Now, do they know a little about geography? Why a person not totally insane would move from NC to OR (probably more than 3,000 miles) for a shabby job?

Last call I received, I asked who eventually would pay for a face to face interview in Oregon. His answer was: the company will interview you only over the phone. Would you like to work for a company you never met one of their officials? Or your future boss? Are we insane here?

Besides their terrible accent (sometimes I don’t understand a word of what they are saying) why don’t they write me an email, so I can delete it immediately wasting only a second of my time?

The proof they don’t read a resume, relies on what they search for. I give you an example; let say that your resume has, somewhere, that you have knowledge of Windows XP. A skill that probably 90% of people can claim (being an expert is another story). They will contact you for a position as Senior Windows Server administrator. Why? Because searching for keywords only, your resume pops up in their search.

Working in this way they waste time for the hiring company (assuming that the proposed job is not FAKE and I suspect 90% of those job DOES NOT exist, your own time and ultimately theirs (not that I care about them wasting their own time).

One of the best request I got was: “I saw your resume on xxxxxxx (a job board), would you be interested in this job? If yes, can you please send me your resume?” Now if they found my resume somewhere, why do they need my resume? It is like asking for my phone number during a phone call they placed to me. Pathetic, idiotic, stupid, moronic (I need a dictionary to find more appropriate adjectives).

One important thing. Never give out your resume to people less than serious. One big red flag is that they never tell you the name of the company they are recruiting for. What is that, secret services? You are not supposed to know the name of the company you will eventually work for? Talk of insanity. Second big red flag? Addresses and recruiting firm they put in their signature (when they writeemails) are not existent or taken from a phone book, so are jobs they propose.

So, why do they need your resume? Something I can infer from my experience:

they collect resumes in order to reach their weekly quota. In a few discussion groups I had confirmation of my suspicion;

they are going to harass companies you worked for, in order to get some business; you better avoid that, if you want to use those companies as reference;

they might even try to steal your identity

I decided to publish on my blog some of their stupid requests, with name and all details provided by them. Emails don’t give them expectation of privacy, as my signatures disclaimer says.

Recruiting is the new crooks’ frontier. Beware of recruiters, especially if from India!



Using Indian Recruiters

By Shaun Snapp
SCM Focus
May 13, 2012


I wanted to start this article by saying that it is difficult to find trustworthy recruiters in general. After years of dealing with recruiters, I would estimate that around one in six are actually worth dealing with. However, after dealing with recruiters for around nine years, I have determined that there is one group of easily identify-able group of recruiters that are far worse as recruiters, both ethically, in their negotiation, and in their communication than the average. This is Indian recruiters. This article is really for independent contractors who are from the US, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, i.e. the developed world. For those independent contractors that are Indian or from a third world county, you know the score already, and don’t need me to point out things that are obvious to you.

Understanding India

In order to understand Indian recruiters, is important to understand India. I have been to India and to Pakistan, and have done reading on the history of the region. Essentially, India and Pakistan were bronze age societies prior to colonialization by the British. Colonialization was begun by the East India Trading Company (without authorization from the British Government), and was eventually taken over by the British Government. India has an enormous population (either soon to or already larger than China’s), and while the British brought some infrastructure, such as a rail system and postal system, most of the country remained undeveloped long after India won independence from the British. While India’s independence is a source of national pride for Indians,the country actually regressed. While the British were in India for their own advantages, the British were better administrators than the Indians that took over from them (since independence and up to the current day) and were less corrupt. India sits at 95 out of 180 countries on the Worldwide Corruption scale. (the US sits at 24, dropping roughly ten spots during the Bush Administration and not recovering our position a single space during the Obama Administration.)

India is marked by extreme income inequality and racial inequality. India has a much large population than it has resources (there have been some attempts at population control, but they have been fiercely fought by the country’s Muslim population). This means that India is one of the most competitive places to grow up in, and makes the people naturally aggressive negotiators. For instance, in Indian universities, the competition is so intense that there are stories of a large number of pages ripped out of textbooks in the Indian university library, which of course prevents the other students from obtaining the answer. Indian ethics center around the family, and then become rapidly weaker outside of that unit. This is the common ethics in third world nations where there is great scarcity. This hopefully provides the proper mindset of Indian immigrants that then come to developed countries.

Negotiating with Indian Recruiters

Indian recruiters take their background in India and apply it to their approaches to recruiting. I am often contacted about contracts, however on almost every occasion, the rates offered by Indian recruiters are lower than the rates I am offered by non-Indian recruiters. This is interesting, because the final client is typically the same types of companies. I even received a lowball offer when the eventual client was a major consulting company (which I refuse to work for), and the major consulting companies charge at the top of the market in their billing rate. This Indian recruiters also waited until deep into the process to tell me that the prime contractor was Accenture.

I have concluded from this that Indian recruiters are simply attempting to take a higher percentage of the rate. This can be partially attributed to greed, but I think also relates to the fact that India has no history of respecting labor rights or labor’s value add to the process. Many Indians are treated terribly by other Indians and unless you are part of theprivileged classes it is simply accepted. The US has a conception of the worker being an important component of production, India by in large does not. The US had at one time much stronger unions (now down to roughly 12%). India never had this. Those who would like to paper over this fact will point to Indian’s labor laws, with 50 national laws protecting labor, and more state laws. However, these laws are not well-respected by international labor bodies, and secondly, few laws in India are enforced. The upshot of all of this is that the Indian culture is for the person with the “gold” to be primary, it is considered ethical to get whatever can be taken from labor. Any person negotiating with an Indian recruiter or rates or other contractual details needs to understand this background. Indians in India prefer not to work for Indian companies, but instead prefer to work for US or European multinationals where they can be treated more fairly.

Getting the Full Story from an Indian Recruiter

I never feel as if I am getting the full story with Indian recruiters. I received an email from an Indian recruiter recently about a project in San Diego. I told him my rate and he said we could talk about the rate, which translates into “I can’t meet you rate but I will negotiate you down after you have invested time in discussing the role with.” Once I got on the phone with him, he tells me “You realize this is a contract to hire position?”

I have no idea why I should have realized that fact, as it was never stated in our email communications. Perhaps this recruiter believed that I had extra sensory perception. I went back to double-check the our emails, and as I had originally thought there was no mention of contract-to-hire in the emails. I reject contract-to-hire positions as soon as I receive the email, so I would be surprised if it had gotten past me. After reviewing the email, I told him I would not be interested in the role and that he had clearly left this information out of our email communication, waiting to spring the information on me during a call. I told him to either communicate honestly or to stop emailing me. He never responded to the email. What I have learned is that dishonest people can never be reasoned with. Pushing back on them, simply makes them move on to the next target.

Communicating with Indian Recruiters

Indian recruiters have poor communication skills. This is not simply some recruiters - it is instead every single one that I have dealt with. This should not be surprising, as some Indians speak several languages, and while India’s official language, or at least the language of commerce and education is English, Indians will always have a second Indian language (there are different estimates of how many languages are commonly spoken in India. Sometimes I am told 13, other times Indians laugh at this estimate and they there are hundreds), however the upshot is that Indians spend far less time speaking English than do people in real English speaking countries. This also extends to writing, and it is well-known that Indians do not communicate in English very well, and in fact is one reason that the quality of documentation has fallen so much on IT projects. My view is that India does not have a very strong written culture, and that the focus is much more on verbal communication. As an example, when I worked at i2 Technologies (a company started by an Indian Sanjiv Sidhu and Ken Sharma, two con men, Sanjiv Sidhu walked out with over $1 billion while i2 eventually cratered and was eventually purchased by JDA). i2 Technologies had a large percentage of Indian employees and the willfully poor communication on the part of Indians, no matter their rank or position was one of company weaknesses that eventually brought i2 down. For instance, an Indian director received an email that was not to their advantage, they would simply not reply to the email. Even if the issue was quite important, the email would sit unanswered. If directly confronted, the response was always that they were so busy. A few US born workers tried this stunt, usually pre-sales consultants or product managers who I caught lying to i2 salesmen and were not interested in having a conversation with anyone knowledgeable on the topic. However, the problem was far more prevalent with Indians.

Communication is one of the most important features of being a recruiter, which is why I openly question whether Indians can be effective recruiters outside of India. Why we have recruiters who are not first language speakers in the country in which they are recruiting is a very interesting question. Certainly, Indians this may not apply to Indians that were raised in the US or England, but the vast majority of Indians working in recruiting, and working in these countries in general grew up in India. Therefore, the Indian culture, use of language, etc.. is what applies currently.


I have stopped responding to Indian recruiters due to the reasons listed above. First, the trust is not there because I don’t feel comfortable negotiating with people with third world backgrounds, secondly I never feel as if I am getting a straight story, and thirdly I have never actually run into an Indian recruiter that was any good at the job. This may sound harsh, but if I were to try to work in recruiting in say Russia, and where Russian was my second language and where I did not understand the cultural norms and could not communicate properly with candidates (and where I was also trying to cheat them), I think others would be right in dismissing me as unqualified to do the job. I have wasted plenty of hours talking to Indian recruiters, and even explaining solutions to them, and it has really been a waste of my time. Therefore, my viewpoint has been shaped by real experiences, and remarkably consistent experiences. When I point out ethical and communication issues with Indian recruiters, this is not a small sample, and this does not apply to some of them - it applies to every one that I have worked with. This is why I both recommend to other independent consultants to ignore emails from Indian recruiters, but also for Indians to get out of recruiting, and move into jobs where they have a better fit between the skills they offer and the demands of the job.



More Preying on the job seeker articles:

[1] - [2] - [3] - [4] - [5] - [6] - [7] - [8] - [9] - [10] - [11] - [12] - [13] - [14] - [15]

Posted by Elvis on 09/07/13 •
Section Dealing with Layoff
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